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user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?

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user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?

KARR, DAVID
Footnotes in the user guide currently display at the end of the chapter.  When you're reading a document or publication that uses this convention, do you ever go to the trouble of flipping to the end of the chapter, reading the footnote, and then paging back to where you were?  If we want people to actually see those footnotes, we should figure out how to render this better.

Unfortunately, I don't think this will be simple.  It seems like the only possibility is for a complete conversion to the FO stylesheets, or FOP, and I'm not even certain we would get the the result I want.  Perhaps there would be other rendering advantages from FOP that we could benefit from, as opposed to just the possibility of rendering footnotes better.

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Re: user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?

Luke Daley-2


On 8 July 2014 at 7:24:07 am, KARR, DAVID ([hidden email]) wrote:

Footnotes in the user guide currently display at the end of the chapter. When you're reading a document or publication that uses this convention, do you ever go to the trouble of flipping to the end of the chapter, reading the footnote, and then paging back to where you were? If we want people to actually see those footnotes, we should figure out how to render this better. 

Unfortunately, I don't think this will be simple. It seems like the only possibility is for a complete conversion to the FO stylesheets, or FOP, and I'm not even certain we would get the the result I want. Perhaps there would be other rendering advantages from FOP that we could benefit from, as opposed to just the possibility of rendering footnotes better. 

What’s FO and FOP?

— 

Luke Daley
http://www.gradleware.com
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RE: user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?

KARR, DAVID

 

 

From: Luke Daley [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 5:06 PM
To: KARR, DAVID; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [gradle-dev] user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?

 

 

 

On 8 July 2014 at 7:24:07 am, KARR, DAVID ([hidden email]) wrote:

Footnotes in the user guide currently display at the end of the chapter. When you're reading a document or publication that uses this convention, do you ever go to the trouble of flipping to the end of the chapter, reading the footnote, and then paging back to where you were? If we want people to actually see those footnotes, we should figure out how to render this better. 

Unfortunately, I don't think this will be simple. It seems like the only possibility is for a complete conversion to the FO stylesheets, or FOP, and I'm not even certain we would get the the result I want. Perhaps there would be other rendering advantages from FOP that we could benefit from, as opposed to just the possibility of rendering footnotes better. 

What’s FO and FOP?

FOP is a print formatter for XSL-FO:

 

http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/

 

— 

 

Luke Daley

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RE: user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?

Luke Daley-2
I don’t think anyone would object to this change. It’s more that no one has spent the time to make it happen.

On 8 July 2014 at 10:43:56 am, KARR, DAVID ([hidden email]) wrote:

 

 

From: Luke Daley [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 5:06 PM
To: KARR, DAVID; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [gradle-dev] user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?

 

 

 

On 8 July 2014 at 7:24:07 am, KARR, DAVID ([hidden email]) wrote:

Footnotes in the user guide currently display at the end of the chapter. When you're reading a document or publication that uses this convention, do you ever go to the trouble of flipping to the end of the chapter, reading the footnote, and then paging back to where you were? If we want people to actually see those footnotes, we should figure out how to render this better. 

Unfortunately, I don't think this will be simple. It seems like the only possibility is for a complete conversion to the FO stylesheets, or FOP, and I'm not even certain we would get the the result I want. Perhaps there would be other rendering advantages from FOP that we could benefit from, as opposed to just the possibility of rendering footnotes better. 

What’s FO and FOP?

FOP is a print formatter for XSL-FO:

 

http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/

 

— 

 

Luke Daley

— 

Luke Daley
http://www.gradleware.com
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Re: user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?

Adam Murdoch

We used to use FOP and switched to xhtmlrenderer a few years ago. Back then it gave better PDF output. Perhaps things have improved with FOP now.

On 9 Jul 2014, at 8:48 am, Luke Daley <[hidden email]> wrote:

I don’t think anyone would object to this change. It’s more that no one has spent the time to make it happen.

On 8 July 2014 at 10:43:56 am, KARR, DAVID ([hidden email]) wrote:

 
 

From: Luke Daley [[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 5:06 PM
To: KARR, DAVID; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [gradle-dev] user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?

 
 
 

On 8 July 2014 at 7:24:07 am, KARR, DAVID ([hidden email]) wrote:

Footnotes in the user guide currently display at the end of the chapter. When you're reading a document or publication that uses this convention, do you ever go to the trouble of flipping to the end of the chapter, reading the footnote, and then paging back to where you were? If we want people to actually see those footnotes, we should figure out how to render this better. 

Unfortunately, I don't think this will be simple. It seems like the only possibility is for a complete conversion to the FO stylesheets, or FOP, and I'm not even certain we would get the the result I want. Perhaps there would be other rendering advantages from FOP that we could benefit from, as opposed to just the possibility of rendering footnotes better. 

What’s FO and FOP?

FOP is a print formatter for XSL-FO:

 

http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/

 

— 

 

Luke Daley



--
Adam Murdoch
Gradle Co-founder
http://www.gradle.org
CTO Gradleware Inc. - Gradle Training, Support, Consulting
http://www.gradleware.com



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RE: user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?

KARR, DAVID

It would be nice if we could get on-page footnotes, but the biggest problem I see with the current rendering is that “literal” and similar elements aren’t computed in line endings, resulting in many truncated literal strings in paragraphs and overprinting of similar strings in tables.  I tried to examine the CSS configuration to see if this could be controlled, but I couldn’t find anything obvious.

 

 

From: Adam Murdoch [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 7:18 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [gradle-dev] user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?

 

 

We used to use FOP and switched to xhtmlrenderer a few years ago. Back then it gave better PDF output. Perhaps things have improved with FOP now.

 

On 9 Jul 2014, at 8:48 am, Luke Daley <[hidden email]> wrote:



I don’t think anyone would object to this change. It’s more that no one has spent the time to make it happen.

 

On 8 July 2014 at 10:43:56 am, KARR, DAVID ([hidden email]) wrote:

 

 

From: Luke Daley [[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 5:06 PM
To: KARR, DAVID; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [gradle-dev] user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?

 

 

 

On 8 July 2014 at 7:24:07 am, KARR, DAVID ([hidden email]) wrote:

Footnotes in the user guide currently display at the end of the chapter. When you're reading a document or publication that uses this convention, do you ever go to the trouble of flipping to the end of the chapter, reading the footnote, and then paging back to where you were? If we want people to actually see those footnotes, we should figure out how to render this better. 

Unfortunately, I don't think this will be simple. It seems like the only possibility is for a complete conversion to the FO stylesheets, or FOP, and I'm not even certain we would get the the result I want. Perhaps there would be other rendering advantages from FOP that we could benefit from, as opposed to just the possibility of rendering footnotes better. 

What’s FO and FOP?

FOP is a print formatter for XSL-FO:

 

http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/

 

— 

 

Luke Daley

— 

 

Luke Daley

 


--

Adam Murdoch
Gradle Co-founder
http://www.gradle.org
CTO Gradleware Inc. - Gradle Training, Support, Consulting
http://www.gradleware.com

 

 

 

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Re: user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?

Adam Murdoch

Would you be interested in trying out a fop backend? It could be just some spike to add fop as an alternative way to render the pdf, not a full replacement for the existing stuff. Then we can play around with it and see if it does a better job than xhtmlrender and switch over if it does.

On 19 Jul 2014, at 7:57 am, KARR, DAVID <[hidden email]> wrote:

It would be nice if we could get on-page footnotes, but the biggest problem I see with the current rendering is that “literal” and similar elements aren’t computed in line endings, resulting in many truncated literal strings in paragraphs and overprinting of similar strings in tables.  I tried to examine the CSS configuration to see if this could be controlled, but I couldn’t find anything obvious.
 
 
From: Adam Murdoch [[hidden email]] 
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 7:18 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [gradle-dev] user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?
 
 
We used to use FOP and switched to xhtmlrenderer a few years ago. Back then it gave better PDF output. Perhaps things have improved with FOP now.
 
On 9 Jul 2014, at 8:48 am, Luke Daley <[hidden email]> wrote:


I don’t think anyone would object to this change. It’s more that no one has spent the time to make it happen.
 

On 8 July 2014 at 10:43:56 am, KARR, DAVID ([hidden email]) wrote:

 
 
From: Luke Daley [[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 5:06 PM
To: KARR, DAVID; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [gradle-dev] user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?
 
 
 

On 8 July 2014 at 7:24:07 am, KARR, DAVID ([hidden email]) wrote:

Footnotes in the user guide currently display at the end of the chapter. When you're reading a document or publication that uses this convention, do you ever go to the trouble of flipping to the end of the chapter, reading the footnote, and then paging back to where you were? If we want people to actually see those footnotes, we should figure out how to render this better. 

Unfortunately, I don't think this will be simple. It seems like the only possibility is for a complete conversion to the FO stylesheets, or FOP, and I'm not even certain we would get the the result I want. Perhaps there would be other rendering advantages from FOP that we could benefit from, as opposed to just the possibility of rendering footnotes better. 

What’s FO and FOP?

FOP is a print formatter for XSL-FO:
 
 
— 
 
Luke Daley
— 
 
Luke Daley
 

--
Adam Murdoch
Gradle Co-founder
http://www.gradle.org
CTO Gradleware Inc. - Gradle Training, Support, Consulting
http://www.gradleware.com


--
Adam Murdoch
Gradle Co-founder
http://www.gradle.org
CTO Gradleware Inc. - Gradle Training, Support, Consulting
http://www.gradleware.com



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RE: user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?

KARR, DAVID

I would be glad to work on that.  My spare time is currently occupied with a full proofreading scan of the entire doc.  Once that is all done (now up to chapter 61) and committed (pending disagreements), I can look at this.

 

From: Adam Murdoch [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 3:03 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [gradle-dev] user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?

 

 

Would you be interested in trying out a fop backend? It could be just some spike to add fop as an alternative way to render the pdf, not a full replacement for the existing stuff. Then we can play around with it and see if it does a better job than xhtmlrender and switch over if it does.

 

On 19 Jul 2014, at 7:57 am, KARR, DAVID <[hidden email]> wrote:



It would be nice if we could get on-page footnotes, but the biggest problem I see with the current rendering is that “literal” and similar elements aren’t computed in line endings, resulting in many truncated literal strings in paragraphs and overprinting of similar strings in tables.  I tried to examine the CSS configuration to see if this could be controlled, but I couldn’t find anything obvious.

 

 

From: Adam Murdoch [[hidden email]] 
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 7:18 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [gradle-dev] user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?

 

 

We used to use FOP and switched to xhtmlrenderer a few years ago. Back then it gave better PDF output. Perhaps things have improved with FOP now.

 

On 9 Jul 2014, at 8:48 am, Luke Daley <[hidden email]> wrote:




I don’t think anyone would object to this change. It’s more that no one has spent the time to make it happen.

 

On 8 July 2014 at 10:43:56 am, KARR, DAVID ([hidden email]) wrote:

 

 

From: Luke Daley [[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 5:06 PM
To: KARR, DAVID; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [gradle-dev] user guide: Anyone ever look into displaying footnotes on same page as reference?

 

 

 

On 8 July 2014 at 7:24:07 am, KARR, DAVID ([hidden email]) wrote:

Footnotes in the user guide currently display at the end of the chapter. When you're reading a document or publication that uses this convention, do you ever go to the trouble of flipping to the end of the chapter, reading the footnote, and then paging back to where you were? If we want people to actually see those footnotes, we should figure out how to render this better. 

Unfortunately, I don't think this will be simple. It seems like the only possibility is for a complete conversion to the FO stylesheets, or FOP, and I'm not even certain we would get the the result I want. Perhaps there would be other rendering advantages from FOP that we could benefit from, as opposed to just the possibility of rendering footnotes better. 

What’s FO and FOP?

FOP is a print formatter for XSL-FO:

 

 

— 

 

Luke Daley

— 

 

Luke Daley

 


--

Adam Murdoch
Gradle Co-founder
http://www.gradle.org
CTO Gradleware Inc. - Gradle Training, Support, Consulting
http://www.gradleware.com

 


--

Adam Murdoch
Gradle Co-founder
http://www.gradle.org
CTO Gradleware Inc. - Gradle Training, Support, Consulting
http://www.gradleware.com

 

 

 

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